Top Upcoming Free Agents - Part 1 (RFAs)

[Ocons]

Totally agree with Jace. So naïve to offer money on players just so that those teams don't get away with a few bucks left in their pocket. It's silly. The IRL examples were all legit but the difference is, those teams were offering real money and did so because they wanted the player. Here we aren't talking about offering max deals because the guys have that kind of value or are worth it, it's being thrown around as a defense mechanism to offset "cheap deals".

I'm fine with it, if you have cap space this off-season - waste your time on RFA's. I'll go after the guys I truly want, and have a chance at, that will make our team better while you're dicking around! hahaha.

Naive is a poor choice of words that I don't agree with. It's just a different strategy, which different people typically have. You don't have to agree with it, but it can be an effective long term strategy if done intelligently, especially if it involves a rival

It might not be the best term in this scenario but it's not far off. The strategy just sounds too much like a team playing not to lose rather than playing to win. I just don't like it. I'm fine if people want to use it and I hope a lot of teams do, actually.

Perhaps my biggest pet peeve is watching shitty teams lob contracts at RFAs in a lame attempt to somehow keep the league honest, while wasting an awesome chance to actually improve their own team by approaching players that are actual possibilities. But again, whatever.

Who are these possibilities? The UFAs will take a lot less money to sign with a contender. then you also have to deal with the team that holds their bird rights and will over pay to keep their players. Its easy to say look at all these guys ive signed in free agency when you are a contender. Jester is actually right the only way to right the ship is for the bottom barrell teams to force the top teams to at least pay fair value. if they dont the rich will just keep getting richer.

Again, I understand there are different strategy's and I am fine if teams want to do that but in making teams pay a little more for players doesn't make your (not you specifically) team better, does it? Too many teams go into these off-seasons with a lot of money and try to drive prices up or hope a team doesn't match on a player but when is a player worth matching, not matched anyway?

I think the bigger issue is that we have to leave it up to a computer engine. All we ever do is try to justify why a guy signs with a team for certain amount of money but we don't truly know. It's not fair and never will be but it is what it is. Hard enough battling the computer for guys who can legitimately help a team win to spend precious time making sure other teams pay an extra thousand dollars or so.

I haven't had much experience with FA in any sim, tried to always stay away from it because it's too unpredictable, so I guess I'll learn the hard way this year.

[8timechamp]

How Clarkson slipped through everyone's fingers last off season, still amazes me. Everyone went for the top guys, while they could have went Clarkson for example. Their loss, my gain I guess.

[Jestor]

Allowing top teams to sign their RFAs cheaply is how the feudal system continues. So yeah, teams with cap should be forcing the hammer down. It's a better use of resources than signing UFAs who don't match a team's window or put it on the path to midtable mediocrity.

I mean, what's the goal of this game? To compete and hope the cards fall your way in the playoffs right?

It stands to reason that before you make the playoffs, you most likely will have to pass through "midtable mediocrity" on your way up from the cellar.

And as far as signing players that fit a "window" is concerned..... what window?

See my All-NBA point in previous points. It only makes sense if your trajectory is such that you can get to contender status. Otherwise, it accomplishes nothing of note.

And signing a veteran player when you're nowhere near contention at the opportunity cost of putting pressure on top teams isn't an optimal strategy at all.

[Sun Scorched]

It's the difference between having a max offer out for Favors vs a max offer put for, say, Okaro. We can go back and forth on whether or not Okaro should be a max contract guy, but either way you have no chance.

My money would be on Favors 10 out of 10 times. It's wasted otherwise.

[Ocons]

I think we're mistaking teams making shrewd moves for teams just not having the cap space to sign EVERY player that comes available. That's just decision making. For me, this off-season would have been Exum, Ennis, McDermott, Hayward and Favors if I kept everyone. It wouldn't have been shred moves for me but deciding who I liked/wanted more long-term and letting the others walk. There would have been no way I signed everyone. That's what you see in Detroit, or at least I think (haven't been around long enough).

In terms of signing UFA's that aren't quality. . . did Daryl say anything about driving up other team's RFA's or how many championship teams had overpaid guys on their team that they got stuck with because other teams didn't match, or that if they didn't offer so-and-so the max, then Team X would have had an extra $2Mil and gotten another superstar for it. . . .

being facetious, of course.

[Jestor]

Again, I understand there are different strategy's and I am fine if teams want to do that but in making teams pay a little more for players doesn't make your (not you specifically) team better, does it? Too many teams go into these off-seasons with a lot of money and try to drive prices up or hope a team doesn't match on a player but when is a player worth matching, not matched anyway?

I think the bigger issue is that we have to leave it up to a computer engine. All we ever do is try to justify why a guy signs with a team for certain amount of money but we don't truly know. It's not fair and never will be but it is what it is. Hard enough battling the computer for guys who can legitimately help a team win to spend precious time making sure other teams pay an extra thousand dollars or so.

I haven't had much experience with FA in any sim, tried to always stay away from it because it's too unpredictable, so I guess I'll learn the hard way this year.

It's much, much more than that. We're talking literally millions of dollars difference even with simple interest raises. Over time, that adds up.

[Ocons]

It's the difference between having a max offer out for Favors vs a max offer put for, say, Okaro. We can go back and forth on whether or not Okaro should be a max contract guy, but either way you have no chance.

My money would be on Favors 10 out of 10 times. It's wasted otherwise.

This. But please stop, Jace. Let everyone offer their money to the RFA's

[Jestor]

It's the difference between having a max offer out for Favors vs a max offer put for, say, Okaro. We can go back and forth on whether or not Okaro should be a max contract guy, but either way you have no chance.

My money would be on Favors 10 out of 10 times. It's wasted otherwise.

It's wasted if Favors doesn't sign with you. Then you've done nothing. Sign an RFA and have it matched, and sure you've lost the player, but you've put more financial pressure on the mother team.

[Sun Scorched]

It's the difference between having a max offer out for Favors vs a max offer put for, say, Okaro. We can go back and forth on whether or not Okaro should be a max contract guy, but either way you have no chance.

My money would be on Favors 10 out of 10 times. It's wasted otherwise.

It's wasted if Favors doesn't sign with you. Then you've done nothing. Sign an RFA and have it matched, and sure you've lost the player, but you've put more financial pressure on the mother team.

This is stupid. You also put pressure on Favors' mother team. In both situations you've lost, but in the pursuit of Favors you at least have a chance.

Look. All I'm saying is that you've done the defensive thing for several seasons now. Maybe try something else.

And while I appreciate the political undertones here and most definitely understand your personal outlook, your strategy sucks and isn't making your team better. Maybe, instead this time, make your team better through free agency.

[OneNole]

Unfortunately, with this engine I dont imagine being able to sign any free agent of real value. So there needs to be a plan. So an obvious goal of mine and im sure Andrei among others is while our young guys develop we continue to put pressure financially on our competitors. Doing so will hopefully put those teams in a situation in which detroit currently finds itself.

Obviously, if you didn't have two upper level rfas that you likely would not have even voiced your opinion in this.

[Ocons]

Unfortunately, with this engine I dont imagine being able to sign any free agent of real value. So there needs to be a plan. So an obvious goal of mine and im sure Andrei among others is while our young guys develop we continue to put pressure financially on our competitors. Doing so will hopefully put those teams in a situation in which detroit currently finds itself.

Obviously, if you didn't have two upper level rfas that you likely would not have even voiced your opinion in this.

The last statement, as it would refer to me, is far off base. I've vocally opposed this strategy in the past and in other leagues. It also has nothing to do with me because Exum will get a max offer from day one, I know that and he deserves it. We're simply talking about the bottom have or 2/3rds of this list.

[bt]

These are asset driven leagues. If you can land anything over stuffing around with price driving, you take it. BI proved you can sell anything so you get the asset in.

Crazy talk passing on an asset because it doesn't fit a window, age or team profile. You're not contracted to keep that asset forever. Great plan to remain at the bottom on continue the super long rebuild.

[blackice]

I am very asset driven, I rarely trade for guys based on fit. I see an asset that is undervalued (usually) and try and use the value disparity to build my talent base.

That said I really admire guys that build their core and stick to it, like SAC, PHX (just traded Wiggins but still), DET, TOR, HOU, NOP and to a lesser extent CHI (kept Rose and built around him). I'm probably missing some teams.

See a pattern? Most of the top teams don't make a ton of trades and build around a talent (or talents) they believe in. It's not in my nature to do that, and after trying desperately to build around Dwight Howard for more then a year, and failing, I kind of lucked into a really fun team when my goal was to clean up my cap situation (we're now under the lux tax by a decent amount). The issue I have is balancing that value based approach with actually building team chemistry and committing to a team.

I catch heat for my trading binges and tried to build team after team around Howard but it didn't work out. I don't mind. I don't think there's one right way to build a team though and everyone has their own approach and reasons for managing their team as they see fit.

[Jestor]

SAC - Did work, yes, but started with Cousins and pick assets
PHX (just traded Wiggins but still) - Started with Goran and Bledsoe
DET - Started with Monroe and Drummond
TOR - You may have an argument here. Can't remember who they started with
HOU - Started with God
NOP - Started with Big man version of God
CHI - Started with Rose

See a pattern? Most of the top teams started with an elite talent already in place

Fixed that for you.

[bt]

Cousins isn't elite and we started without pick assets. NBA Kings traded my pick and we followed those trades to start.

[blackice]

SAC - Did work, yes, but started with Cousins and pick assets
PHX (just traded Wiggins but still) - Started with Goran and Bledsoe
DET - Started with Monroe and Drummond
TOR - You may have an argument here. Can't remember who they started with
HOU - Started with God
NOP - Started with Big man version of God
CHI - Started with Rose

See a pattern? Most of the top teams started with an elite talent already in place

Fixed that for you.

Fair point but my approach is you start with what you start with. Other teams had elite talents and traded them, can't fault a team for starting with a franchise talent and building around them.

Funny though, I started with TOR and had a Kawhi/Kemba/Ibaka core (if I recall correctly), and then left. I came back and took the Clippers.

You know a team that took the trade for value approach that I love so much and worked it way better then I did? The CHA Hornets. Brilliant trade after brilliant trade and now have a young team that can compete for a title without starting with a franchise talent. I'd say Riot is one of the few that could have pulled that off though.

[OneNole]

Unfortunately, with this engine I dont imagine being able to sign any free agent of real value. So there needs to be a plan. So an obvious goal of mine and im sure Andrei among others is while our young guys develop we continue to put pressure financially on our competitors. Doing so will hopefully put those teams in a situation in which detroit currently finds itself.

Obviously, if you didn't have two upper level rfas that you likely would not have even voiced your opinion in this.

The last statement, as it would refer to me, is far off base. I've vocally opposed this strategy in the past and in other leagues. It also has nothing to do with me because Exum will get a max offer from day one, I know that and he deserves it. We're simply talking about the bottom have or 2/3rds of this list.

Was not referencing your in my comment.

[hardenwithnod]

I'm just going to sit back, and learn from you sharks hah.

[Dennis]

Well, Im normally a guy who builds around players too. Look at my NLL team (before it sadly died), when I got Davis for Clark and #11 I built around him. McConnell never would have been traded either.. Here in the CSL it is different. When you start with a scrub line up of Rondo, Bradley, random smallforward, Sullinger, Faverani you have to trade a lot to get something going. Give me Rose, Davis, Harden, Griffin or whoever of those guys right from the start and I promise he would still be a Celtic. (given he didnt leave in free agency).

And yeah, Mussie (Toronto, to a lesser degree LAC now) and Riot (Charlotte this season) lead the ranking in best turnarounds ever. SAC did a great turnaround too, but had also some luck that a new joiner traded him Porter for Harrell and that Kyrus traded him Parsons, Lin and a plethora of firsts for an overrated Cousins. Im pretty sure Kyrus wouldn't do it again now, we all learned over the years.

[andrei]

Here are two hypothetical scenarios that my lack of fully functional brain allows me to come up with:

Scenario 1:

Teams with MAX money under CAP mount an organised effort this offseason. Let’s say we all arrange a conspiracy, organise a MTU (Mediocre Teams Union) and subdivide RFAs. Imagine we agree that Tim will offer MAX to Cotton. He goes out and offers MAX and Cotton signs the offer.

Worst Case (for MTU): NOP have to either match or try to find S&T while the MTU are posting articles encouraging GMs to lowball NOP in case of S&T (as they are cornered). NOP match and have an overpriced Cotton on the books with possibility of approaching Hard CAP. Or Cotton is traded for less than his value (depends on NOP Hard Cap situation). Tim moves on to next RFA.

Best Case: LAL sign an impressive young PG even if slightly overpriced. Balance of power shifts as NOP lose their second best player for nothing. (We know it’s only temporary Jace as you’ll bounce back in no time)

Scenario 2:

We follow Jace’s advise and each do our own stuff going after UFAs. Let’s say Tim and I decide to offer MAX to Griffin. In the meantime, Jace quietly works on deals for Cotton and Capella in the background.

Worst case (for MTU): With little competition, Jace lowballs his two RFAs to a combined perhaps $10M deal or even less. Griffin does the thing he is highly likely to do and takes $30M+ more from Indiana. Tim and I end up with nothing.

Best Case: Despite lack of other offers Jace decides to offer fair market deals to his FAs (what is fair market if there is no market?). Griffin signs with Tim. Even in this Best Case scenario only one of mediocre teams wins because Griffin can only sign with one team.

Scenario 1 looks more appealing to be honest.